Advertisement
I too am very much against Starbucks, especially being from Vancouver where there is a Starbucks every ten meters on some blocks (no joke). I must say that I agree with a lot that is written in this discussion group, but what really bothers me the MOST is how completely unoriginal and boring and plain depressing it is to see so many God Damned Starbucks in one city. I hated private school because we all had to wear the same uniforms…no self-expression allowed. That’s what having this pretentious coffee shop every where reminds me of…some unoriginal corporate conservatives messed-up idea of making sure all shops look the same, serve the same stuff and hire the same employees (contrary to their claim of having a hiring practice that doesn’t discriminate, more on THAT later). Maybe I best not compare this coffee shop to staunchly stuffy uniforms (those at least have a small element of sex appeal, Starbucks is ANYTHING but sexy), A better comparison would be to clones. Living in a city full of walking talking clones would be enough to want to hang myself (especially if they were clones of myself) so why would I want to walk a city where there are store duplicates after store duplicated and nothing else (that’s what a lot of cities are turning into).
But to get to the part where I say something good about Starbucks (I know, I know it’s hard to believe our enemy has something redeemable about it) I’ll start by telling you that I used to work at Starbucks (please forgive me Lord) so I am speaking from experience. I also used to work at Bean Around the World, Blenz and Torrefatzione Italia (which incidentally is now owned by Starbucks too).
Out of all these coffee shops Starbucks is the only place that offered me full benefits as a part-time worker (less then 20 hours a week even) after a few months working there, and offered me stock options. I also got a raise in pay regularly enough that working there for a long time was rewarded AND I could pick up hours working at any of the other Starbucks in the city anytime I wanted if I wasn’t getting enough shifts at my location. In other words I was respected as an employee (partner they called us) and was rewarded for my hard work and was given more work if I needed it. Starbucks also donated money to the organizations I was involved in if I submitted formal request or took part in that organization’s march or protest.
As a starving student in my late teens early twenties this kind of job was unheard of, as a matter of fact after I left Starbucks I couldn’t afford to get my teeth cleaned for a good two years (don’t look so grossed out, I still brushed!) A lot of cool “grass roots” organic local coffee shops pay their employees next to nothing and don’t get enough regular customers to fill the tip jar. Another bonus to working at Starbucks—tips. Because there are always so many customers (ones that tip well too) we got a tip pay out every off-week (the one where we didn’t get a pay check) and the tips were good, not like “food server” good, but good enough to buy my groceries or weekend of partying. This was a lifesaver for me.
The drawback to working there though was the “cult” like feeling of the work environment. Or the “clickiness”, to be gentler. Everyone has a certain “lingo” and style…it might be too rude or politically incorrect to say that they mostly hire gay guys, fat chicks and artsy-fartsy types but what the hell I’ll say that it mostly holds true. There is nothing wrong with this practice per-say (In my opinion those are the coolest most “with-it” people I know) but it still is a form of discrimination to only hire certain types of people. It goes back to the whole I don’t like clones point I made earlier. I hate “clicks” and I hate groups of people who think that they are better and more knowledge then everyone else. The majority of Starbucks employees think that they are more knowledgeable then you “oh lowly customer who knows nothing about coffee” are. There is always this super “I am so cool” vibe at Starbucks and the staff get that way because they are totally brainwashed in the training part of the hiring. I know, I went through it first hand.
You go through this week of intense Starbucks classes that include coffee tasting; this is where you sit (and I am not joking here) swish coffee around on the palette of your tongue and spit it in a cup (like wine tasting) and describe to your fellow new hires what room of the house the taste reminds you of, or what colour you think of when you taste it. This is also where you are told respectively by the managers that human beings cannot taste “bitter” that there is no such thing as “bitter” and anyone (customer) who says that the coffee is bitter is actually uninformed and wrong.
You are also told respectively that the coffee is not “burnt” and anyone who thinks it tastes like that doesn’t understand the roasting process of the beans and is also uneducated and not as informed as YOU are, because in other words-- “you are a partner at Starbucks therefore you are in fact smarter then the customer”.
Needless to say I got sick of being around pretentious know-it-alls who “take it in their corporate slave asses everyday by management, and “give-it” in the asses to every customer who has a different preference for coffee that may not be the All mighty Godly perfect cup of coffee “Starbucks Coffee”. I got in Doggy-Style position for the Starbucks routine brainwashing sessions myself when I worked there (hey we all get desperate for a pay check at some point). The best of these sessions was the “Yayy frapacchino” hoop-la where all of us “Partners” got to miss a shift of work to celebrate Frappecchino beverages together with fun and games and “quickest drink maker” competitions.
We were made to wear Hawaiian flower chains and my store manager even put an inner tube on her head to fit in with the summer theme. This all sounds harmless, but trust me it’s not it’s just one of the many examples of Starbuck’s weird employee “bonding” and team building strategies all in the name of making a HUGE profit. I mean huge! Each and every cup of coffee you buy is only worth 3 or 4 cents (they told us that too) and most drinks sell between 3 and 6 dollars there, so really paying your staff well is nothing to pat them on the backs too much for…but this day in age it’s really hard to find a job that pays more then minimum wage and gives you enough hours to survive on, especially coffee shops.
My long winded ranty-ness is just to say that Yes Starbucks Sucks, for all the reasons I listed and more…but there is intelligence behind their domination of the market, they do truly respect their employees (especially if you are a gay guy, fat chick, or artsy-fartsy type) and I would recommend working there over Blenz to young student types ANYDAY but that my friends is a story for another blog day.
Until then keep up the good anti-Starbucks work, but remember to be more understanding of the people that are working there too, just because they are arrogant and self-righteous preachy little coffee snobs who will resort to wearing inner-tubes on their heads all in the name of a product launching campaign doesn’t mean that they don’t have feelings or financial needs for survival too.Hey, I was there once, and I must say I have A LOT more respect for the Barista (at any coffee shop) then I did before I worked at one.
But to get to the part where I say something good about Starbucks (I know, I know it’s hard to believe our enemy has something redeemable about it) I’ll start by telling you that I used to work at Starbucks (please forgive me Lord) so I am speaking from experience. I also used to work at Bean Around the World, Blenz and Torrefatzione Italia (which incidentally is now owned by Starbucks too).
Out of all these coffee shops Starbucks is the only place that offered me full benefits as a part-time worker (less then 20 hours a week even) after a few months working there, and offered me stock options. I also got a raise in pay regularly enough that working there for a long time was rewarded AND I could pick up hours working at any of the other Starbucks in the city anytime I wanted if I wasn’t getting enough shifts at my location. In other words I was respected as an employee (partner they called us) and was rewarded for my hard work and was given more work if I needed it. Starbucks also donated money to the organizations I was involved in if I submitted formal request or took part in that organization’s march or protest.
As a starving student in my late teens early twenties this kind of job was unheard of, as a matter of fact after I left Starbucks I couldn’t afford to get my teeth cleaned for a good two years (don’t look so grossed out, I still brushed!) A lot of cool “grass roots” organic local coffee shops pay their employees next to nothing and don’t get enough regular customers to fill the tip jar. Another bonus to working at Starbucks—tips. Because there are always so many customers (ones that tip well too) we got a tip pay out every off-week (the one where we didn’t get a pay check) and the tips were good, not like “food server” good, but good enough to buy my groceries or weekend of partying. This was a lifesaver for me.
The drawback to working there though was the “cult” like feeling of the work environment. Or the “clickiness”, to be gentler. Everyone has a certain “lingo” and style…it might be too rude or politically incorrect to say that they mostly hire gay guys, fat chicks and artsy-fartsy types but what the hell I’ll say that it mostly holds true. There is nothing wrong with this practice per-say (In my opinion those are the coolest most “with-it” people I know) but it still is a form of discrimination to only hire certain types of people. It goes back to the whole I don’t like clones point I made earlier. I hate “clicks” and I hate groups of people who think that they are better and more knowledge then everyone else. The majority of Starbucks employees think that they are more knowledgeable then you “oh lowly customer who knows nothing about coffee” are. There is always this super “I am so cool” vibe at Starbucks and the staff get that way because they are totally brainwashed in the training part of the hiring. I know, I went through it first hand.
You go through this week of intense Starbucks classes that include coffee tasting; this is where you sit (and I am not joking here) swish coffee around on the palette of your tongue and spit it in a cup (like wine tasting) and describe to your fellow new hires what room of the house the taste reminds you of, or what colour you think of when you taste it. This is also where you are told respectively by the managers that human beings cannot taste “bitter” that there is no such thing as “bitter” and anyone (customer) who says that the coffee is bitter is actually uninformed and wrong.
You are also told respectively that the coffee is not “burnt” and anyone who thinks it tastes like that doesn’t understand the roasting process of the beans and is also uneducated and not as informed as YOU are, because in other words-- “you are a partner at Starbucks therefore you are in fact smarter then the customer”.
Needless to say I got sick of being around pretentious know-it-alls who “take it in their corporate slave asses everyday by management, and “give-it” in the asses to every customer who has a different preference for coffee that may not be the All mighty Godly perfect cup of coffee “Starbucks Coffee”. I got in Doggy-Style position for the Starbucks routine brainwashing sessions myself when I worked there (hey we all get desperate for a pay check at some point). The best of these sessions was the “Yayy frapacchino” hoop-la where all of us “Partners” got to miss a shift of work to celebrate Frappecchino beverages together with fun and games and “quickest drink maker” competitions.
We were made to wear Hawaiian flower chains and my store manager even put an inner tube on her head to fit in with the summer theme. This all sounds harmless, but trust me it’s not it’s just one of the many examples of Starbuck’s weird employee “bonding” and team building strategies all in the name of making a HUGE profit. I mean huge! Each and every cup of coffee you buy is only worth 3 or 4 cents (they told us that too) and most drinks sell between 3 and 6 dollars there, so really paying your staff well is nothing to pat them on the backs too much for…but this day in age it’s really hard to find a job that pays more then minimum wage and gives you enough hours to survive on, especially coffee shops.
My long winded ranty-ness is just to say that Yes Starbucks Sucks, for all the reasons I listed and more…but there is intelligence behind their domination of the market, they do truly respect their employees (especially if you are a gay guy, fat chick, or artsy-fartsy type) and I would recommend working there over Blenz to young student types ANYDAY but that my friends is a story for another blog day.
Until then keep up the good anti-Starbucks work, but remember to be more understanding of the people that are working there too, just because they are arrogant and self-righteous preachy little coffee snobs who will resort to wearing inner-tubes on their heads all in the name of a product launching campaign doesn’t mean that they don’t have feelings or financial needs for survival too.Hey, I was there once, and I must say I have A LOT more respect for the Barista (at any coffee shop) then I did before I worked at one.
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 16, 2005 - 8:52 AMAmen, sistafriend. I work for Starbucks' main competitor (and sattelite company, strangely enough) and everything you said rings true. Everyone needs a paycheck, and just because the barista behind the counter scowls at you when you ask what French Roast is doesn't mean she necessarily buys into the "corporate vision" - baristas need paychecks, and some companies make it worthwhile to be a coffee cheerleader for a year or two. I no longer work in the cafe, I now work for the "mothership", and contrary to popular belief, the head offices of these places are not necessarily more "ra ra coffee" than the cafes. Most of that is facade - the offices are more about the bottom line than the espresso. Another thing to keep in mind when dealing with the snooty or overly excited baristas is that they have constant checkups and evaluations by management. If you're not spouting the company line, you obviously "don't want to be there". It's difficult to give up your personality for 8 hours a day just to pay the bills... -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 16, 2005 - 9:18 AMI totally appreciate the reply. Coffee shops are one of the most lucrative businesses in the world—so exactly, it’s all about the moola. The big ones are generally pretty good at looking after their employees (like a lot of other large corporations) so it’s no surprise that even those who don’t agree with most aspects of the marketing campaigns or staff attitudes end up staying for a long time, or continue to move up. Human beings are also creatures of habit and a lot of us are most comfortable with familiar surroundings and consistent service (it doesn’t have to be great coffee, it doesn’t have to be the best price, but it has to remain the same in every shop of that name you go to) because people don’t like too much change generally, especially all of a sudden one morning when they are really bitchy before that first cup of the day. I found that at all the cafes I worked at one thing was constant the clientele expected a particular thing from that café and were faithful as long as it never changed, if you serve shitty coffee customers get used to your shitty coffee and are going to your store for that shitty coffee everyday, so your shitty coffee better not be shittier one day and less shitty the next. Starbucks is great at keeping their shitty coffee consistently shitty. Especially with the advent of the “Mc.Bar” or in other words, the espresso machine that doesn’t even require a Barista to “tamp” the porta-filters anymore. They now simply press the shot button and voila a consistently shitty espresso shot every time! -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 16, 2005 - 9:47 AMHehehee - mcBar...
The worst part is, I am totally one of those creatures of habit that stays because it pays kinda ok, and I like my co-workers...but the kicker is that I am also totally addicted to the product itself, and sometimes I find myself going "god I hate my job...but at least I get free coffee".
I know what you mean about "coffee culture" too - it's as though they expect you to make their company your religion. i don't know about you, but the thought of getting together with all my co-workers for a "fun" day of coffee making contests and transparent team building exercises is about as enticing as shoving bamboo under my fingernails. Making coffee reminds me of being at work. Why would you want to give me a "day off" where I am still making coffee for people I don't give a damn about? And the customers perception of the barista as a coffee robot - do they honestly think I CARE if they are not happy with the amount of crema on their espresso shot?? That they have to have exactly 1.4 inches of room for cream? That they find my coffee to be too hot, too cold, too bitter, too sweet, too brown??
My cafe used to be located deep inside Yaletown too...the Prada wearing botox shooting "my-dog-matches-my-purse" barbie dolls that would complain about EVERYTHING....jeeezus. -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 16, 2005 - 10:11 AMLOL, coffee Robot…. hee hee “the Prada wearing botox shooting ‘my-dog-matches-my-purse’ barbie dolls that would complain about EVERYTHING”. Speaking of Dogs matching purses. Have you ever seen that sign outside of starbucks that says something like “Please Dogs, leave your owners inside in respect to the other Dogs outside with you.” OH those Starbucks managers are so clever and “with-it”. For fucks sake--Like the dogs can even read…oh wait! Of course they can! Their owners are Starbucks customers…they personally taught their pets to read, they wouldn’t want illiterate muts as children now would they? Oh and make sure that when you are steaming the milk for the puppy’s latte that you don’t keep the wand in too long, you wouldn’t want to burn their little tongues. Oh, I also heard that Dashunds prefer their beverages in the short size not the Grande because their legs are too squatty for them to get to lick the foam at the bottom of the cup when they are finished. -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 16, 2005 - 10:29 AMI just have one message for coffee buyers out there:
When you order a "Cappucino", you will get a cup of espresso, milk, and about 3 inches of light foam. That is what a cappucino is. If what you want is a latte with caramel on top, or a frozen blended drink, please do not call it a cappucino and then freak out when you get what you asked for. I had a woman toss her hot coffee all over a co-worker once because the co-worker called out "latte" when what the customer called it was a "cafe au lait".
And can I just say - to the woman on a certain Vancouver shopping street that used to order a non-fat latte with whole milk foam and a half caff shot - i gave you full decaf and 2% milk. Every. Single. Day. Pbbbbbbbbbbtbttttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!
-
-
-
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 16, 2005 - 3:16 PMYeah, I've certainly noticed a pissy attitude in some Starbucks employees, but I also get that (in even greater amounts) in alternative record chains, video game retailers, the Gap (!) & even in independent coffee houses. The indie/college/hipster types can be completely obnoxious, even when the coffee itself is merely adequate & the service is nothing special. We have the Au Bon Pain chain in New Enlgland (Peet's coffee), which I prefer, employees & all. And there's also Toscanini's, which serves ice cream AND coffee.
Thanks for all the info. Nothing like a firsthand account.
-
-
Unsu...
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 16, 2005 - 11:30 AMThat was a most excellent rant. I don't like Starbucks coffee that much either. It'll do in a pinch, though. Seattle also has a Starbucks on every corner, but I go three stores down from one to a place called Caffe Ladro. Now that's good coffee. The problem I have with Starbucks coffee is not that it's bitter, burnt, or poured by a cheerleading squad, but that it's bland. And there's really no excuse for that. -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Wed, September 21, 2005 - 6:03 PMI think Cafe Ladro is even more pretentious than Starbucks. I guess the bottom line for me is that all of these espresso places are basically the same. Cafe ladro doesn't even have any comfy chairs. That place is just uncomfortable, but..to each his own! -
-
Unsu...
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Wed, September 21, 2005 - 7:14 PMI just love coffee. Who gives a shit where it comes from? -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Thu, September 22, 2005 - 2:06 PMI hear this crap all the time, evil corporate entity my ass. I don't shop at Wal-Mart, but that's based on my not wanting to fight the crowds and there is really no benefit for me. I never hear anybody use the same putting poor mom and pop outta business argument when they talk about Costco. I go to Starbucks because I like their coffee. I do like hearing that they offer benefits to all their employees, sounds like a decent place to work if you're a student, flexible hours, etc. -
-
Unsu...
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 23, 2005 - 1:24 PMCorporations suck. Since I've moved to LA recently, Starbucks is the place to hang out at here for a lot of folks . It's werid. It's hard to find independant coffee shops down here that's not a bistro/bakery/brunch place. If there's a Starbucks around and not crowded, I'd go to it. I like Peets a little more myself though. I would go either way. Because sometime the independant coffee places aren't too good. The end. :)
r.r.r.
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, September 30, 2005 - 2:46 AMI don't think anyone here thinks it's an evil corporate entity per say, there just seem to be too many of them. If there was a Costco or Wal Mart on every corner, or (like in Vancouver) literally 3 per city block I think you would find the scenery redundant and irritating too.
At least MacDonalds changes up their store designs a smidge when they bust a new one into your hood. Starbuck's insides are oh so early nineties! I'm soooo sick of the forest greens, purples and maroons swirly "modern artish" decore.
If they are going to erect a coffee shop every two feet they could at least TRY and think about the culture and pre-existing "look" of the area they are moving into. Don't you think? -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 10:54 PMI'd say if given the choice I would choose a smaller family owed coffee shop... Unless of course their coffee sucked... Then I'd have to run back to the McDonanlds of coffee.. : )
Star bucks has started buying some free trade coffee which is a good step in the right direction. For those of us that care about our fellow humans.
It's helping by creating a much larger market for free trade coffee since they are such a mega corporation with huge buying power.
Next thing you know some one will be filming a documentary about the evils of Star Bucks... But what do you call it? Double shot? Quad this? Maybe we can get that guy that did Super Size Me.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Fri, October 21, 2005 - 10:37 AMI feel your pain. I worked for Diedrich's coffee for 3 years. But we had no benefits and were paid barely above min. wage. However it was fun before it went corperate.
I use to have theme nights when i worked, 80's, goth we would all dress up and change the music. That was fun until he went public then everything changed. Once that happened I stayed for a year after because they gave me a nice pay raise. But all the girls would dress somewhat revealing (including me) because it would increase the tip amount. I know it is horrible but I needed gas money.
Anyways... Corperate coffee houses suck but on the other hand they are very convenment and it is hard to get away from them.
Well after the coffee house I went home depot and worked there for 3 years. That was good times. The job would have better if it werent for the annoying customers. (clerks)
After all the service jobs clerks is a movie that speaks to us and shows us the way of customer service.
Thank you kevin smith -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Sat, October 22, 2005 - 2:37 PMat our little cafe, we like to wear bathrobes and fuzzy bunny slippers the day after a drinking holiday...(new years, halloween ect..)
-
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 4:23 PMStarbucks evil? Just for havinng a successful business model, and marketing a product in a way that can appeal to the most people, this is evil?
Well, that part is not evil, that's just business. Just because a coffeehouse is local doesn't mean they have consistently good coffee, good service, good atmosphere, etc . . .
What IS evil about Starbucks is this:
www.metroactive.com/papers/m...0440.html
basically, they use their money and weight to drive local competition out of their locations. I'm sure there's other shit they do too, but check out that story.
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 7:42 AMLiving in the southeast of the US, coffee has been an issue from the get-go. Since I live a bicoastal life, bringing home bags of Peets Italian roast from Piedmont helped some. When Starbucks opened their first store in Tallahassee, it was a huge deal for the coffeeistas around here. It wasn't the first espresso machine in the city but it was the best. Since then, we've had several homegrown roasters show up and I'm buying beans from them of course.
When *$'s builds a shop across from one of the homegrowns, or buys them out, I'll feel different, but in the meantime, three hips and a large hurrah for Starbucks for bringing culture to the outlands. -
-
Unsu...
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Mon, February 6, 2006 - 4:50 AMSO, why is is then that when Starbuck's moves to town does going out for coffee become fashionable...when there have been mom and pop indie shops have been around for far longer...? How many indie shops did you have in town before they opened, and how many indies do you have now?
We had a fine shop here in Duluth go down not long after Starfucks opened their doors a few blocks down. I can't really attribute their demise to SB's directly, as the SB location is a bit poor and they don't do that much business... I think they did manage to take down a shop a little closer to their location though. I should add that both shops purchased coffee from the company where I work/roast coffee...
Starbucks has done their jobs in bringing coffee to the masses, but at what cost? -
-
Re: The Starbucks Debate--My Thoughts
Mon, February 6, 2006 - 1:13 PMI live in the rural south where coffee is not exactly a beverage that is celebrated. Around here it's all about iced tea, moonshine and buttermilk. Prior to $*'s showing up, the coffee situation was dismal. There was another coffee chain in one of the malls but to drink there, you have to go to a mall. Yuck. This is frigging capital of Florida and you couldn't get a cup of espresso or a decent cup of well made filter coffee. I have neighbors who think that the coffee at the Waffle House down by the Interstate is good stuff. Since $*'s arrived (bookstore version), things have perked up (sorry) and now we have a good selection of locally owned and franchise shops, and two botique roasters.
-
-